Episode 199

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Published on:

19th Jul 2025

Episode 199: Leaning Into Uncomfortable Conversations: Curiosity Over Conflict [featuring Michael Ashford]

Patrick Casale and Michael Ashford, the director of marketing for The Receptionist for iPad, a TEDx speaker and communications coach, a TEDx speaker himself, and an author, talk about a topic that couldn’t be more relevant in today’s climate. They discuss how curiosity, open conversation, and a willingness to step outside our bubbles are essential, not just for healthy workplaces, but for thriving as business owners and humans.

3 key takeaways:

  1. Lean Into Discomfort for Growth: There’s power in having uncomfortable conversations—whether with colleagues, clients, or even those we disagree with. Real progress and understanding often begin with a willingness to engage rather than retreat to our echo chambers.
  2. ASK-then-SEE Approach: Michael shared a tangible framework for communication:
  • ASK: Assume positive intent. Set aside your ego. Know you can’t know everything.
  • SEE: Search yourself (reflect on your own beliefs and biases). Explore other perspectives. Exchange curiosity—talk to people from different backgrounds and viewpoints.
  1. Expand Your World—Even Locally: You don’t need to travel internationally to break out of your echo chamber. Engage with new communities close to home. Curiosity and openness to new perspectives enrich us both personally and professionally.

Whether you’re in private practice, leading a team, or just navigating a divided world, embracing curiosity and respectful dialogue is a game-changer.

More about Michael:

Michael Ashford is a communications explorer and a tireless optimist. He has spent years researching leadership, conflict communications, and how to overcome political and social polarization in an effort to chart a path to help us bridge divides, communicate well, and find more common ground. Michael is the Director of Marketing at a Denver-based software company, The Receptionist, as well as a podcaster, a two-time TEDx speaker, and what he calls an "independent journalist" as a shoutout to his former career as a newspaper editor.

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Mentioned in this episode:

NeuroPreneur Circle Community

NeuroPreneur Circle is an online community built by and for neurodivergent entrepreneurs who want a supportive space to build a business, a space where they can show up as themselves and in whatever way feels most comfortable. NeuroPreneur Circle exists because community built on masking isn't really community. And business advice built for neurotypical brains isn't actually useful to us, no matter how many times we try to make it fit. Whatever your neurotype, whatever you're building, there's a space here for you. You've been creating alone long enough. Visit: https://atppod.com/community

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About the Podcast

The Neurodivergent Entrepreneur
Honest conversations about building a business while Neurodivergent, the self-doubt, the chaos, and everything in between.
The Neurodivergent Entrepreneur is a podcast for ADHD, Autistic, and all other neurodivergent entrepreneurs who are building businesses, creative work, and lives that actually fit how their brains work. Hosted by Patrick Casale, LCMHC, this show is for people who
want to create meaningful work, create outside of the box, grow their impact, and build something sustainable without losing themselves in the process.

Being a neurodivergent entrepreneur can feel like holding a lot of contradictions at once. You may have big ideas, deep passion, creative energy, and a strong desire to do things differently. You may also be navigating burnout, masking, self-doubt, perfectionism, rejection sensitivity, executive dysfunction, inconsistent energy, and the pressure to keep showing up when your capacity is already stretched. This podcast speaks to that reality honestly, because building a business around your brain, your values, and your lived experience can be powerful, complicated, messy, and deeply personal.

Patrick Casale is a chronically ill, AuDHD, mental health therapist, entrepreneur, TEDx speaker, event host, group practice owner, and neurodivergent business owner who has built, grown, burned out, pivoted, and kept going. His work brings together clinical insight, lived experience, business perspective, and real conversation about what it actually takes to create something that feels values aligned. His conversations are direct, compassionate, unfiltered, and practical, with room for both the emotional reality of entrepreneurship and the concrete decisions that shape a sustainable business.

New episodes drop every Wednesday and feature honest conversations with neurodivergent entrepreneurs, creators, therapists, business owners, and leaders. Together, Patrick and his guests explore entrepreneurship, identity, mental health, chronic health,
creativity, leadership, systems, money mindset, visibility, community, sustainable growth, and the behind-the-scenes reality of creating work that matters.

Build your dream business. Protect your capacity. Work with your brain instead of against it.